assembly
assembly
Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ? singapore
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Latest Ardor Client: Ardor 2.2.3

Pages: 1 2 [All]

Author Topic: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?  (Read 3410 times)

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« on: March 27, 2018, 09:09:29 am »

technically is it possible to create a ardor childchain that has its child chains ?? that is, create a ardor clone whose main chain is synchronized with ardor coin. or something similar. Why does Jelurida not offer ardor clones synchronized with ardor?
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2018, 09:09:59 am »

ardor is the main chain and cloneardor is a ardorchildchain automatically ardor and ignis become much more valuable. On the other hand you give freedom for anyone to create their use case under the umbrella of ardor/cloneardor childchain and the last term of jelurida
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2018, 09:10:33 am »

petko Said

"In Ardor the forgers validate all child chain transactions before extending the blockchain with the newly generated block. Honest forgers will not build on top of invalid blockchain. This is what secures the network. A new node joining the network processes the ARDR chain, then downloads the snapshot for some block like a day ago (which is buried below enough blocks, but not too old) and processes the child chain transactions from that block until now. This is how the node knows the child-chain balance of some account. (Snapshots are still not released, but that's the plan).
So if the child-chain balances are used to forge another parent chain (in the ArdorClone network), how will a new node joining the network process the ArdorClone parent chain (whose balances are synchronized with an Ardor child chain)? It must process the ARDR chain, and also all transactions in the Ardor child chain. So it must process two parent chains instead of only one in the case of a normal Ardor clone, not "synchronized" with an Ardor child chain. OR we could think for some other way for the ArdorClone stakeholders to vote for the best ArdorClone parent chain at some moment in time, which voting to not require processing the history of the ArdorClone child chain in Ardor. Hm it's not a bad idea. Maybe for Nxt 3.0 :slightly_smiling_face: "
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 09:21:20 am by igmaca »
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2018, 09:11:48 am »

@petko this idea seems revolutionary to me. you have to shape it. a first use case would be a 100% functional peer to peer exchange platform under the umbrella of jelurida exchange platform. all the current use cases under an infinity of individual blokchain could be transferred to this new ecosystem fully synchronized. I propose a new name for NXT 3.0.

 "Adinkras" supersymmetric ardor clones plattform.

which means adinkras supersymmetry platform for me. Each person or group has a way of seeing and interacting with the environment. it is proven that a survival mechanism of the species is its diversity in facing the changes of the environment. how many more different strategies (ardorclones) are synchronized to the new platform more possibilities of which set (adinkras platform) can survive as blokchain. In the end, supersymmetric means, in this case for me, that within a same group you have at least one proposal and its opposite, forming in the ideal case an ecosystem that is self-balancing. if a strategy (ardorclone) is successful, being synchronized with the other proposals, the whole group benefits.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 11:07:09 am by igmaca »
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2018, 09:15:05 am »

adinkras; A definition of spacetime supersymmetry

"In the middle '90s, I decided I was getting sufficiently old that I could make a fool of myself if I wanted to, and try to solve some of these problems that people regarded as unsolvable. And in doing that, we were led first to a graphical technology, something we called the adinkras. This is a word that comes from traditional West Africa languages. But we found these mathematical objects which sit inside of the equations with the property of supersymmetry.

Then secondly, even more shocking for us, when we analyzed these objects very carefully, we found out that they have attributes of ones and zeros in precisely the same way that computers use ones and zeros to send digital information. And in particular, the kinds of codes we found, which was the most shocking thing for us, is that there's a class of codes that allow your browsers to work in an accurate way. They're called error-correcting codes. We found a role for error correcting codes in the equations of supersymmetry, and this was just stunning for us.

In fact, it was so stunning that it was at least eight months before any of us would sort of admit how bizarre it was. And this is a group of mathematicians and physicists. It wasn't just me. I really do need to acknowledge. People think that science is solitary. It turns out it's not solitary. It's a communal activity. So there were three physicists and three mathematicians, and we wrestled with this stuff. Like I said, it was months before we would admit how bizarre this result was."  https://slack-redir.net/link?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonbeing.org%2Fprograms%2Fs-james-gates-uncovering-the-codes-for-reality%2F. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=15&v=b6w0K5FIgsU
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 09:42:57 am by igmaca »
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2018, 11:26:12 am »

In the end, sooner or later, ardor clones will start to come out. Why not anticipate and offer a way to interact with them?.   ::)
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

Right.Here

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +22/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 260
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2018, 02:52:48 pm »

Hi  :D

theoretically and technically, it is very possible to transform an NXT clone (NBCK) into a child chain connected via a second peer network that sends the already forged and signed blocks to the Ardor network for the final storage of data ...

the two major problems is the security and the way to pay the fees from a child network in the mother network...

it's like that how i imagined ardor and not in its current state...
Logged
NXT-LJV5-YSF4-MXXX-438D5

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2018, 10:50:57 am »

it seems according to Petko's comment that there may be some technical possibility in which it can be implemented. currently there are other more immediate priorities. but as I suggested to petko it would be good to incorporate this possibility in the road map as a possible implementation at least in the long term.  :)
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

websioux

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +69/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 343
  • Great changes grow bottom up
    • View Profile
    • Scriba.io the Blockchain Scribe
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2018, 03:23:21 pm »

Now that there is JPL = an incentive for holders (Ignis for Ardor and nxt for NXT clones) to promote clones, it is, indeed, time to hope for clones to provide the best they can, to the global ecosystem. So, the more we can help them, the best.

Clones provide infinite scalability, if niche clustering forms. There are completely parallel networks. And they have the marketing advantage that "your passphrase" works on all of them (although this might be a fallacious argument as everyone is best to organize himself with a ton of passphrases), people are what they are and they still tend to associate accounts with, activity, type of actions, personalities, reputations, things they could propagate from main to clone and reverse, all build-in in NXT ecosystem naturally! Right or not, this is surely an argument that can play a lot in favor of adoption.  Clones are great products for innovators: they potentially already have users from the main.

Evolving from, asset or currency to childchain and to childchain to clone should be made as easy as possible. This looks like a recommended path and would contribute to JPL respected ("JPL distribution function at genesis").

To "plug" them, the minimum is that they notarize into Ardor or Ignis, which requires some people to pay for that, this can not be build-in I'm afraid. What Komodo is doing for cross chains exchanges should be considered. Or "just cooperate" with them could probably be enough.
Logged
Secret Miner <= communicate with style | NotBot <= timestamp digital docs

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2018, 06:20:58 pm »

in the case that technically it is possible to be synchronized with the ardrclones. does this mean that the number of nodes that insure the global network increases?   and therefore the whole ecosystem becomes much safer?   ::)
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

websioux

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +69/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 343
  • Great changes grow bottom up
    • View Profile
    • Scriba.io the Blockchain Scribe
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2018, 10:17:28 am »

The number of nodes does directly really make it "safer", it makes it more resilient: censorship & network failure. But ok, one could argue, that resilience is a safety component.
Logged
Secret Miner <= communicate with style | NotBot <= timestamp digital docs

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2018, 09:22:11 pm »

a possible candidate synchronized ardrclone. the idea is promising

"Our platform is being developed to make certain the experience is seamless for customers. They simply need to download and register the app, which can easily verify the user’s digital identity with their home operator’s database through standard, secure industry procedures. The person can then select the voice and data plan they need from a provider in their travel destination country, and purchase the contract with tokens, cryptocurrencies, or fiat currencies. Once a user pays for the service, a blockchain-based smart contract is generated. The foreign provider’s mobile profile will be transferred “over the air” in the form of cryptokeys to the user’s SIM-card, allowing them to call and use the internet directly through the local operator when abroad. This means users can access the fastest LTE quality speeds and avoid the “looped slow internet” because they are working directly through the local network." (edited)

@riker @petko is it posible with ignis smart trasaction? "Once a user pays for the service, a blockchain-based smart contract is generated" it seems a great project user case for ignis/ardor platform. I'm thinking that ardor can provide, among other things, 0 fee transactions compared to the ethereum solution. https://medium.com/@lyaffe/benefits-of-ardor-0-fee-transactions-355ca775c3b6 (edited)
"The person can then select the voice and data plan they need from a provider in their travel destination country, and purchase the contract with tokens, cryptocurrencies, or fiat currencies." (edited)
@Elizabeth @veronica perhaps you can contact them. they was in Mobile World Congress 2018 :thinking_face:

http://bitcoinist.com/bubbletone-founder-yury-morozov-plans-change-telecom-world-one-blockchain-time/
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 08:48:38 am by igmaca »
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2018, 09:22:45 pm »

Riker said:

My observations about the BubbleTone article:
1. This is clearly a paid for PR article.
2. They are using "Graphene based platform", maybe a  Bitshares clone? Repository https://github.com/Clementvale-LTD/blockchain-telecom.graphene-core/commits/bubbletone shows very little activity since December so perhaps they just developed a demo.
3. Their ICO starts in 15 days - so they don't have any funds at the moment.
4. The roaming costs problem is real but their chance of building a solution for this is very small unless they can raise a lot of money and get many partners.
5. This is clearly an area where Ardor does not provide all the functionality out of the box so will require a lot of custom development.

Regarding your question about the Ardor blockchain "smart contracts", I will write some posts later this week or next week to explain our approach.

https://github.com/Clementvale-LTD/blockchain-telecom.graphene-core/commits/bubbletone
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2018, 08:39:33 am »

smart contracts example for a simple ignis smart contracts or simple smart contracts for a custom ardorchildchain under the umbrella of jelurida's advice or smart contracts example for a synchronized custom ardorclone under the umbrella of jelurida's advice and Jelurida Public License (JPL).  scalable solutions based on the project complexity degree.  ::)

https://medium.com/coinmonks/lightweight-contracts-b738b6e29377
https://medium.com/@lyaffe/more-advanced-contracts-46865515743d

« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 12:49:48 pm by igmaca »
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2018, 05:41:47 pm »

mrv777 said: I think what is more important are forging nodes. If there were 1000 nodes but everyone was forging on one node the network would not be very resilient.
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2018, 05:42:37 pm »

@riker why do not you put on the road map even if it's long term "create a ardor clone whose main chain is synchronized with ardor coin. or something similar. Why does Jelurida not offer ardor clones synchronized with ardor?"
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2018, 05:43:19 pm »

petko said: This can be listed as research project. I'm not confident it will work
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2018, 05:44:35 pm »

this news although in the long term I think it would drive, Ardor as the most innovative platform always ahead of others.  ::) ;)
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2018, 03:05:03 pm »

Silly question.  ::) We know that the average time to generate a block is 60 sec. Suppose we have 60 Ardr Clones with their 60 main chains. Let's suppose that each chain records the blocks of the 60 clones. As there are 60 chains. the average speed of which a block is registered can be reduced to 1 second ??.

the Red (or pearl necklace) of Indra:

Imagine a multidimensional web in the early morning, covered with drops of dew. And each drop of dew contains the reflection of all the other drops of dew and, in each reflected drop, the reflection of all the other drops of dew in that reflection. And so on to infinity. That is the Buddhist conception of the universe in an image.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 05:55:57 pm by igmaca »
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2018, 11:32:02 am »

riker said: "Some random thoughts:
Split the chain to many multichains, really difficult, even splitting to a subnet per child chain is quite complex.
Lightning - by itself has a complex setup on top of the blockchain itself. We will monitor to see if this really becomes main stream
DPos - we will stay with our own simple and decentralized POS for good or bad
DAG - we need to wait and see, I doubt it will scale better than blockchain
ZKSnarks/Privacy - really difficult from perspective of customer support and exchange integration. We have shuffling already, which gives good privacy but nobody uses it, so why invest in something more complex?
Faster block time - yes, I think that at least on testnet, we can even implement this soon. Mainnet only when we don't have many empty blocks."
 
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything

igmaca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +12/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Ardor clones synchronized with ardor. Why not ?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2018, 06:41:24 am »

Travin said; "Interesting idea, but I don't think it would work. You would need some sort of atomic swaps unless an oracle is used since the chains are not really interoperable (yet), which in itself requires some time."
Logged
nxt is the divine matrix with which everyone can forge anything
Pages: 1 2 [All]
 

elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
assembly
assembly